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You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. The CW-80 is a nice little transformer, has accessory output as well,but as you have stated you will outgrow the CW-80 pretty quick. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. I have a 3amp, 40watt transformer. If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. The multi-conductor wire is also available. Transformers are sized by determining the total load required (in amps). This conserves the trains' power supply for their needs and makes troubleshooting much easier. Beginners Ask Trains New trains; old transformers. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I - YouTube If you need a device that converts from different voltages so it can power another device, then a transformer will fulfill that role perfectly. If you make a complete loop of 100 feet with good track joints, you'll have something like .1 ohm from the transformer to the farthest point, using the rule of thumb that most track is something like 16 AWG wire (.004 ohms per foot) and that there are two 50 foot tracks feeding the farthest point from two directions. So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Ok our layout is 10 x 20 = 200 sq ft x 2 = 400 watts. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. (10 lights X . A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. How do you choose the right power supply for your model trains? Great for learning all you will ever want to know about Lionels track system. A Passenger consist can easily use more power than the engine. I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. www.spankybird.shutterfly.com, God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. Safety first. The preferred choice for wiring control panels is telephone or telecommunications wire. And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. If you have the proper wire size and a properly-sized circuit breaker, you should not have any problems using the old transformer. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. These systems still require a power supply but it only needs to supply a constant voltage to the rails. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. Although it will not have any impact on the performance of the wire within, choosing multiple colors of wire, and standardizing on a specific color for each function, will go a long way in making your wiring easier to install and easier to detect flaws later on. UpBright 18V AC/DC Adapter Compatible with Lionel O Gauge Fastrack 10" Remote Control Terminal Straight LionChief System Track 6-1923100 HKYF45-180230T-US DC18V 2300mA 18VDC Power Supply Cord Charger. Not really a how-to-build-a-layout book, but it is a good general introduction to the hobby full of interesting stuff. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. The wire can also be purchased as solid or stranded. 24v, 120v, 208v, 240v, 480v, and 600v). Get updates and special offers via email from Trains.com brands! This wire is very fine and can be found in many color combinations. The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. Right now I am running 8 motors on one KW [the new one I found] and got the old one for reserve. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. In some cases. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. :-). They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". What is the best transformer to use? - O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum These can all have uses for your layout. Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following, $12.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable). A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Choosing the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains - The Spruce Crafts The Best Technical and Innovative Podcasts you should Listen, Essay Writing Service: The Best Solution for Busy Students, 6 The Best Alternatives for WhatsApp for Android, The Best Solar Street Light Manufacturers Across the World, Ultimate packing list while travelling with your dog. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. That might work, but it's probably borderline, especially if you are using something like a 1033 transformer that tops out at 16 volts. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. It does run on conventional power but not great and no whistle or bell. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. Dave: That certainly qualifies, don't forget the anti-gun lobbyist with the picket sign's. If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad. Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. A. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. A lot of people are using the MTH Z1000's who have smaller layouts while others have moved up to the MTH Z4000. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. Number 26 to 20 wire (depending on the length of your bus) will be sufficient for most applications. While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. 6 Best Transformer For Ho Trains - LEDS.CC Never had a problem. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. RemembertheVeterans. The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content. There are a few standards when it comes to the color-coding. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. Effort. Effort. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers for sale | eBay Also, you wont be able to take advantage of independent control of multiple engines on the same track without a digital controller. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? Then power every other one with one of your smaller transformers. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. Thus an appliance with a 15-ampere plug (the usual kind with parallel blades) must draw no more than 12 amperes. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. If you plan to add a second loop for another train in the near future, the 14198 would be a wise investment. Transformer Sizing Calculator I had 3 lionel cw80's and two quit working. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! Lionel 1033 90 watt Transformer Postwar from 1950s-60s Whistle, Direction. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! It is not uncommon to see 50-year-old transformers still going strong on a model railroad. Ive talked more about the Lionel RW and the LW as well. These sets use a remote control which talks directly to a receiver in the locomotive. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. Calculating transformer size for layout size - Classic Toy - Trains My question is.how big of a transformer will I need to power this thing? As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. One rail is positive, the other negative. Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. Hello, I'm new to this site, and completely new to toy trains also - so please pardon my ignorance! Extending the Reach of Your Power That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. Just not quite as much. The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. M3103. Serious or fatal injuries may result. Transformer Calculator KVA Calculator Full Load Amps Calculator Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. How Many Lights Can I Connect To My Transformer? - LightUp Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. Handbook of layout wiring | Classic Toy Trains Magazine Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. This means that you will have about.5 volt drop if your train draws 5 amperes. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. Service/Tested $55.00 1 bid $14.06 shipping 1d 6h LIONEL TYPE (KW) TRAINMASTER TRANSFORMER FOR PARTS OR RESTORATION $17.05 4 bids $19.95 shipping 9h 23m What size Lionel transformer do I need? 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. Reverse the above if planning to run mostly Lionel and go with the Lionel command system, either the full Legacy system or the upcoming CAB-1L and just add a Track Power Controller and a cable to run most MTH engines in conventional with the Lionel systems. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). Ive talked more about the KW here. A 10 amp breaker and 16 gauge wire would be appropriate for an old ZW. When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. It was one of Lionel's more venerable postwar products, lasting on the market for 18 years from 1948 to 1966. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a . At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. That's about enough to run a single locomotive and perhaps power a few lighted accessories or passenger cars. Transformers are designed to fail if a short in the secondary or control side occurs. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! I would check yoour connections and wire size, just to be safe. Our transformer sizing calculator allows you to obtain the minimum single or three-phase transformer size required based on the load you need to power. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. Sell Your Trains Yourself On eBay. And that means theyre affordable. Dave, you're so eloquent and inspiring - my undergraduate degree was in American Studies, now I'm in charge of among other things all our college's technology - also self-taught.. Hello All: Re: Dave Farquhar, Dave you left out sense of humor Regards Steve. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. to run conventional you will need Legacy plus a Powermaster and Powermaster Bridge or Legacy and a TPC 300/400. The 110-wattLionel RW is a cheap option, and the 125-watt LW, while a bit more expensive, gives a bit more power. Of course, if you happen to have enough Number12 wire left over from a home renovation project to install all the buses on your small layout, it won't do any harm. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. To participate you must either login or register for an account. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. I have since wired the new transformer to my layout along with the old ZW. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. Transformer sizing for new systems From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. Multi-conductor wires with many strands of finer wire are more common for telecommunications and electronics. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. --I need a station for the train to stop at. I recently acquired a beautiful Lionel NH Alco 420. They give a great deal of power in a single handled transformer, and if you run trains along with another person, it can be more convenient for you to both have a smaller transformer than for two people to huddle around a larger KW or ZW transformer and share its handles. I recently read an article/product review in the OGR magazine for the new Lioneltransformerand wassurprisedto learn that not all voltage outputwave-formsare created equal (pure sine wave versus some type of clipped sine wave). Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. Just not quite as much. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Price Received. Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! If you like fixing things, fixing an old transformer is rewarding. Alternating current (AC) is the preferred power for most O Gauge three-rail trains as well as some two-rail systems in smaller scales. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. If youre comfortable doing some work yourself, you can buy a fixer-upper, and my informational links will tell you more about fixing one yourself. This would be more than enough for any single train and a few accessories. 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. As cheap as the 1033 is, if youre going to buy a transformer, you might as well pay a few dollars more to get a 1033. $2799. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. If the system's train transformer is run in Europe with a step-down transformer alone (converting only voltage from 230V to 115V AC at a 50 Hz), it may not operate as intended. properly wired transformer can handle any amount of track. The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. They run on three rail track. It is 5" long. If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. As the train goes by, the door to the shed opens and a figure pops out, and once the train has passed the figure re-enters the building and the door shuts. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. Most power supplies will perform very well for years if used within their limits. [:)]. By only supplying power to the trains that need it, you can greatly reduce your needs. --I wish I had some more cars to put behind the engine. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. It can run four tracks at one time, so you layout can grow. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. IF the Engineer is the guy that drives the locomotive then theTechnician must be the fireman is this correct? With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. All power supplies will be rated for volts, amps, and watts. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). If you have to ask,your needs are a lot more modest than that. Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. When running a mixed bag train show with new and old trains of mixed types such as Loinel and MTH which is better? The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Why Do Lionel Trains Have 3 Rails? | Worldwide Rails Lots of good tips for building a layout from two of the most experienced people in the hobby. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Our community is FREE to join. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here.