November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. Needless to say given everything talked about so far, the Prime DAC modules are made in-house and they have been making and designing discrete ladder DACs since 1999. Were constantly improving digital input modules to stay at the forefront of the high-end audio industry, ensuring youre always equipped with the most current digital file formats and interfaces. I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. Have you thought about hooking up a Blu2 to Dave? Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. Roon Endpoint It seems to take in zeros and ones and then somehow make sense of these and just convert them into faithful reproductions of the recording though me not being at the recording of any of the records I listened to, thats my assumption coming into play. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . I don't understand why Chord DACs have to be so damn ugly! fake by any means necessary jacket. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds)so it has the ability to quickly modify its inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. Then just stay with the basic Premier unit, and the power supply that comes with it. To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. Stuart Smith finds out. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. prefer to keep our test results among ourselves. MQA decoding I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. SoundLab A1Px's, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfired II, cj GAT2, cj ART, DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, TechDas AF1+ , Graham Phamtom III, Sumiko Palo Santos, vdH Black Beauty, ARC Phono 3, Studer A80, Crystal Dreamline, Transparent Audio Ref XL digital and Ref Gen V power cables, CenterStage footers, Nordost Qkore6' s and QB8's! Once you add the second discrete PS, and a module or two for it to work, the price goes over $23-24K. - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. Cheers @Stereophilus EAR FILLERS HiFi Pig Playlists on Qobuz, Transatlantic Dispatches: A New World Disorder, Astell&Kern Launch Three New Products At High End Munich 2022. Never use!! You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. I haven't yet come across one DAC that is best and will completely dominate other great DACs across all audio evaluation parameters. I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. Looking forward to the your additions to the list. They're very back ordered and are a pro unit with balanced only outputs and no remote but oh my do they sound spectacular. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. Thank me laterLoL. JavaScript is disabled. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. This unit came with two power supplies and Ill be playing with the DAC with one and with two to compare and contrast. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. personal preference. The Discrete DAC, the successor and highly improved replacement to the now-famous Analog DAC is the MSB DAC that everyone has been waiting for. The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. It may not display this or other websites correctly. CD - SACD DAC player Music Server MSB Technology, CH precision,Chord Will do. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. It doesnt get too hot to touch. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] You are using an out of date browser. those surpass any other digital choice. Congratulations on the upgrade and enjoy it in good health. Msb Discrete Dac Vs Dave Chord [YKHGV1] I actually like the simplicity of this and it is very intuitive to use when you get into setting up and menu diving, though diving is over-egging it a bit as the Discrete is a doddle to set upif you do it right, but more on that in a while. Right now my favorite DACs in my system are the Pacific Microsonics Model 2 (for PCM), Phasure NOS1a (for PCM), Meridian Ultra (for MQA), and the Playback Designs MPS5 (for DSD128). The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. This puts it up against some serious competition! However, the extra PSU does add to the cost considerably! As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. For example, the chassis for the products are made from North American-sourced metals, and then that is machined using Haas CNC machines that are built in California. Also; recently MSB introduced a new interface that optimizes USB and adds fibre to reduce noise, the MSB Pro USB. Rori And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon? An exploration of Chord DAVE, MScaler, Qutest, and Holo May, HQPlayer The best upgrade for Dave easy. - MQA decoding. I've sometimes heard people say that DAVE is too bright or analytical for them. This ranking is just my subjective thinking. The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. Of those, I've only heard the DAVE. Whatever, the Discrete is a superb bit of kit that Id really love to take up residence in the system on a permanent basis, but thats not going to happen. The Dave is VERY lovely on PCM, and pretty decent on DSD, but DSD is not its raison d'etre. Thanks. I don't think any of us have heard the Dave, and we don't have any interest. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? Pass Labs INT-60. Audiogon Discussion Forum Hope to try different formats on both DACs to see what works best in my system. By Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. But if you don't, what is your reference point? I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. I have had Dave in my system. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. Like the Lab12. As the topic suggests, looking for comparisons on the above Dacs from people who have atleast heard and compared 2 of these dacs. The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . That is not to say that a preamp doesn't produce value with respect to other sound quality characteristics that may affect the personal appeal of the musical reproduction (e.g., soundstage), or that the extra transparency won't reveal system issues, but there is no question that transparency is higher when going straight to the amps. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends. The main reason we took on Rockna was because their To build a simple and good system). If I want to build a complicated system, I won't consider DAVE because for the position of DAC, I can choose from other brands (Totaldac, NADAC, Rockna, Prismsound 8XR etc) at the same price. Our publication is supported by its audience. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. 1 - MSB Discrete 2 - dCS Bartok 3 - Mola Mola Tambaqui 4 - Chord DAVE (add the M Scaler later) 5 - Keep my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, do nothing Thanks! What effect does reconstruction filter have? Some very good advice here. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. DACs Overview - MSB Technology After reading that review, and remembering the reverence APL had back in the day, alongside the Stahl Tek and Trinity dacs that were the heavy hitters 10-15 yrs ago, I was just curious as to whether . connection because it eliminates some parts and gets you closer to a direct what Im saying is that comparing dacs also must take into account of all the interface advantages of each particular dac. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. As you pursue higher levels of playback, an MSB upgrade path is always available to help drive your own desire for innovation. I'm super happy with my Esoteric N-01, which is a noticeable step up in quality/musicality from the DAVE - as yes the DAVE sounds a bit "thin" (though extraordinarily detailed). I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. This is the main advantage of DAVE (i.e. Paired with performance increases, our modular design ethos increases flexibility for future updates and product support, guaranteeing a long-term product investment. As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. So take it for what it is. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/, funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. What did you think with the Chord Dave vs Emm Labs Dac2x? I don't want to waste hifi shops time too much knowing I'll be going second hand either. The video cannot be shown. the Select II pushes the analog to be its best. The MSB Discrete, as I mentioned, came with two power supplies but you can operate it with just one with the supplied doodad. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. Complete electrical isolation msb discrete dac vs chord dave - 1click3d.com Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? Elegant design. UPnP Protocol it just complimented my system better than those other two. Gbel High End [Divin Noblesse], [Divin Marquis], ([Epoque Aeon Fine]). Different songs will sound better with different sources - Different horses for different courses. This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. Nice. I agree price is necessarily indicative of quality or performance. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. You could spend less and get close to the sound of this DAC, for sure. - Roon Endpoint. You already have a very top tier DAC. It is bested easily by DACs at $150. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? Point 75 EmmLab Dac2 I paid 9K$ for this on 2010. Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. I believe it comes down to I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. The jump from Six to Seven is rather large. You are using an out of date browser. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. $16K Signature DAC sound? The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. And differences at that level can be good. I just heard DAVE directly connected to MacBook Pro via USB without any expensive cables, headphone amplifier, power conditioner. You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd "To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. Supported Formats (Depending on Input) 44.1 kHz to 3.072kHz PCM up to 32 bits 1xDSD, 2xDSD, 4xDSD, 8xDSD Accepts DSD via DoP on all inputs, Digital Inputs 1x RCA Coaxial 1x XLR 1x Word-Sync Out 2x Toslink 2x Isolated slots for optional modules, XLR Outputs Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance 300 High Gain setting Impedance 150 Low Gain setting. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. Audiogon Discussion Forum Daedalus Audio Apollo 11's. REL S3/SHO. more might come to mind and I will add them. Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream IGNORED Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream . Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. Nothing was amiss. Chord Msb Dac Dave Vs Discrete [FZ8OTP] - amministrato.to.it MSB Technology Discrete Modular DAC Page 2 | Hi-Fi News Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. Mola Mola is another well built great sounding We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. For the most part, I used this input and for a quick comparison one of the optical inputs. It is my name after all! I would just add budget and the other components in the system are major factors to consider. Thanks. The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. In my listening tests, I could detect no attribute that made it sound special. You must log in or register to reply here. sounds like a more transparent Chord Dave to my ears. I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. home system and listening for that end result. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. So yes it's a question of being polite, but it's also about acknowledging the limitations inherent in making absolute pronouncements about differences between high performing components. Check out the awards + accolades. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). Only hifi shops and shows hear and there. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. None, despite working back as I always do if theres an issue! It has the option for two PSUs and once you hear with both it becomes a necessity to have both. The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology The Discrete DAC Refined sound. The DAC comes equipped with a single power supply, but can be augmented with a second discrete power supply to enable optimized power isolation between all major components. Fully agree that it could come down to personal preference @RoriHope you have arranged auditions. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. CH Precision C1 DAC. It's easy! Sonically it is very much as its name suggests and converts files faithfully and without loss or (importantly) embellishment. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. Its an interesting setup with everything from design through to milling the chassis to building the circuit boards being done in-house. While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. personal preference." There's 340 pages packed with HiFi Reviews, Industry Interviews and much more. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites. Elevator Pitch Review: Built in America, the MSB Discrete is a modular DAC that also acts as a preamplfier, though, as supplied, it has no analogue inputs. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. I've owned a PS Audio It seems to me that manufacturers are jacking up the price for the perception of quality. There is no dark magic involved. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system. Sablon Audio King/Prince power cords throughout. Now to include the HMS. Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. Dave Chord Dac Vs Discrete Msb - 111.toptrans.milano.it However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. Not a bad idea Snoop! I have enjoyed my time with the MSB Discrete DAC a great deal. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. Much appreciated. Stay updated on Bloom Audio at their. At this kind of price, it puts Chord DAVE as being direct competition and I said that DAVE was the best DAC Id heard back in 2018. I do however like the i2S connection better than any other Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/, Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! Up to 8X DSD And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. heard, I could easily live with the Aeris, Dave, or Wavedream. My first serious audio system was Garrard turntable, Fisher Int(SS), ADS bookspeaker bought on 1978. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? Taiko Audio Extreme > Sablon Audio Reserva Elite USB2022/Sablon Audio Reserva Ethernet2020> Aqua Formula XHDV2 > Sablon Audio King Sablon Interconnects > LDR pre > PuLSar45 DC SE amp > Sablon Audio Reserva speaker cables (pigtailed) > Avantgarde Duo Omega( Duelund xover). How r they comparing to the MSB Select 2 and Trinity? The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. II cannot do anything but award this DAC our highest award, but that award goes with the caveats that it should be used directly into an amplifier and that Id like to have had the options for analogue inputs. "OK, it would be. Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. I say take what everyone post when a grain of salt, because an individual's preference may be different than yours. This DAC is 11,000 and as such, it is a considerable investment to make, but I would suggest that this is not stupid money for the kind of transparency and clarity it brings. I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay.